The Smoking Ban - An Unmitigated Disaster.

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GrahamHart
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Post by GrahamHart » Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:07 pm

Since it's implementation I have seen pubs losing thousands and thousands of pounds hand over fist, which is resulting in my fellow entertainers losing work by the bucket load. There is also a tremendous change in atmosphere.

Non smokers tell me they are fed up with being in conversation with a smoker who stops mid stream to go outside for a fag.

I have personally caught a chill from going to the cold outside from a warm environment now on three occasions and have ended up feeling ill, resulting in me taking to my bed for a few days. I think it's fair to say, I can't be the only one.

Apart having the pleasure of having a smoke and a drink removed, there is one thing that was not forseen. Mithane !

I AM PISSED OFF WITH THE SMELL OF FARTS ! ! ! It is utterly digusting. This happens at around 75% of my gigs. Prior to the ban these smells were neutralised by ciggarette smoke.

An elderly woman told me that shopping is now a worrying experience for them as they walk through droves of smokers standing outside of town pubs.

Driving past the Corn Exchannge in Camborne late one Saturday night , I almost knocked down two young ladies who stumbled off the pavement where a gathering of in excess of well over a hundred people stood.

Logic says smoking and non smoking rooms would stop this madness and return our civil rights, but fat chance of that ! :-x

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Allister
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Post by Allister » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:40 pm

I am in favour of the smoking ban. Fair enough the stale smell of B.O and farts can be horrible but with proper air conditioning or fresheners this is not really a problem.



Logic says smoking and non smoking rooms would stop this madness and return our civil rights, but fat chance of that !



Logic says that we should quit smoking, but fat chance at that!

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GrahamHart
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Post by GrahamHart » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:31 pm

Zieg Heil ! ! ! Zeig Heil ! ! !



edited by: GrahamHart, Apr 15, 2008 - 07:31 PM

Wolfgang
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Post by Wolfgang » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:05 pm

Graham

From a linguistic point of view, can I, please, make the correction that it should be 'Sieg Heil' - meaning victory, salvation.

I am not condoning or supporting this old nazi words, but just saying what it should be.

On the smoking line, I would say that it must be a good thing that it goes - strange though our grandfathers would find it.

Wolfgang

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Allister
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Post by Allister » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:34 pm


Zieg Heil ! ! ! Zeig Heil ! ! !



There's nothing controlling or oppressive about the smoking ban. Smoking is a disease, an addiction, and we as a society need to be weaned off of it. A non-allowance of smoking in bars/pubs and clubs is a good thing and a great step forward in ridding ourselves of this disgusting habit. I suppose you wouldn't advocate separate smoking sections on buses, in cinemas, or in libraries.

P.s I am a smoker.

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GrahamHart
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Post by GrahamHart » Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:51 pm

Wolfgang. I am grateful for your explanation. Thank you. I am not condoning or supporting old nazi words either, just trying to put into words my feelings on Alister's reply.


Fair enough the stale smell of B.O and farts can be horrible but with proper air conditioning or fresheners this is not really a problem.




Wow ! Your'e the first person I've ever heard say that, because every single one I've ever smelt of someone else's are always horrible ! Air fesheners and proper air conditioning is pie in the sky in my world.

Allister -
Logic says that we should quit smoking, but fat chance at that!



Can't argue with that, except to say: If we're going to talk logic, I think ridding ourselves of the many, many evils in the World are way, way more important than spending time on stopping people making personal choices. As you say of smoking though, " fat chance at that ".


There's nothing controlling or oppressive about the smoking ban.



No. BTW, I'm not a Musician, I'm an amusement Engineer.


Smoking is a disease, an addiction, and we as a society need to be weaned off of it.



Yes, but we as a human race are not evolved enough yet to manage it. You will know when we are because people will not start , and those who have, will stop.


A non-allowance of smoking in bars/pubs and clubs is a good thing and a great step forward in ridding ourselves of this disgusting habit.



How compassionate of you, and thanks for the freedom of choice. I explained in my first post that everyone should and can be catered for. That can easily be done and is happening in Spain.


P.s I am a smoker.

Okay, so you like breaking conversations, standing outside in the freezing cold or rain, but you need to know that you are in a very very, tiny minority.

I like you Allister, but that is the biggest load of crap you have ever posted here. Maybe you've just had a bad day. ;-)







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Allister
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Post by Allister » Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:56 am


Wow ! Your'e the first person I've ever heard say that, because every single one I've ever smelt of someone else's are always horrible ! Air fesheners and proper air conditioning is pie in the sky in my world.



B.O and farts are obviously horrible smells but I'd rather endure that than sit in a "hot box" all night inhaling other people's smoke.



If we're going to talk logic, I think ridding ourselves of the many, many evils in the World are way, way more important than spending time on stopping people making personal choices.



Indeed, however, we must take what small steps we can, whenever possible.



No. BTW, I'm not a Musician, I'm an amusement Engineer.



:-?



How compassionate of you



Thanks, I do try :-P



and thanks for the freedom of choice



There are loads of "freedoms" that are restricted, such as speeding down town streets and what have you. This is no different. Freedom is only allowed when it doesn't harm others. Smoking harms others.



I explained in my first post that everyone should and can be catered for. That can easily be done and is happening in Spain.



If something could be arranged where certain bars allowed smoking then I guess I could bend my opinion somewhat.



Okay, so you like breaking conversations, standing outside in the freezing cold or rain, but you need to know that you are in a very very, tiny minority.



On the contrary. From my experiences the smoking ban has been welcomed fully. Maybe it's a generational thing?




I like you Allister, but that is the biggest load of crap you have ever posted here. Maybe you've just had a bad day. icon_wink



Not at all. I don't want to drink in a public bar and be forced, due to other people's ignorance, to inhale toxic fumes. It's that simple. If a smoking room or something was arranged than I guess I have no problem with that.




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GrahamHart
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Post by GrahamHart » Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:24 am


B.O and farts are obviously horrible smells but I'd rather endure that than sit in a "hot box" all night inhaling other people's smoke.




Your Right. It is a generation difference of opinion.


How compassionate of you

Thanks, I do try




Well you're not trying hard enough. Show it to both sides of the argument.


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Allister
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Post by Allister » Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:38 am


Your Right. It is a generation difference of opinion.



I'm in my mid twenties and haven't found it too difficult, as a smoker, to adapt to the smoking ban and I imagine the kids growing up now, when old enough to go drinking, will simply accept it as a norm, in much the same way that buses, trains and cinemas have always, for me, been smoke free environments.



Well you're not trying hard enough. Show it to both sides of the argument.



It's hard on an issue like this when it effects everyone. I guess the most sensible solution would be smoking rooms or smoking bars, where employees are made aware of the risks.

Celticwarrior
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Post by Celticwarrior » Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:12 am

It makes me laugh ..the smoking ban is kind of an infringement on peoples civil liberties to go about there business free from the interference of others and i do sympathize it must be horrible to be enslaved by a root crop to need to ingest it every thirty to forty seconds. However its a medical fact thats it is bad for you and in many cases ends up killing the adictee. Personally i thoroughly enjoy going into a pub and not having to breath in tobacco smoke by the lung full (something that i used to accept as being part and parcel of going into a public house)waking up in the mornings and not having my clothes stink and having to cough up greeners is also a complete joy too. I would suggest a better way of aiding smokers by providing adequate areas in places where they aren't going to by a danger to traffic or a nuisance on the public highway.

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Marhak
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Post by Marhak » Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:59 am

If proper air conditioners, extract systems and fresheners solve the BO and postern blast problems, they would solve the smoke problem, too.

A separate room for smokers would have been a compromise solution but today's PC brigade are not interested in compromise - only the imposition of their will.

A great many of those who opposed smoking in pubs stated that they did so because they felt they couldn't go into them because of it but, once it had been banned, they could then start to give their custom to the pubs. Well, as the landlady of my local says: "where the hell are they?"

And Graham is right - pubs, especially country pubs, are in big trouble because of the ban (and also because, just a fortnight short of this year's Budget, some breweries hiked up their prices, so the price of beer went up twice in a month.

Add to that the spiralling cost of everything around us - council tax, petrol, food, the abolition of the 10% tax band which is going to hit Cornish earners extremely hard (the Government tells us that inflation is currently at 2.2%. Balls, says this commentator, who is sick and tired of being lied to).

People, especially in this part of the world, have little money left to buy beer. What chance does the poor old pub have?

Our traditional way of life, particularly rural life, is being rapidly and systematically destroyed. Take my village as an example - it once had a school, post office, shop and pub. Now it has only the pub and St Austell Brewery nearly shut that down a few years ago. You can echo that example a hundredfold or more in Cornwall alone. The imposition of PC dictats is only adding to that destruction.





edited by: marhak, Apr 16, 2008 - 07:01 AM

Celticwarrior
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Post by Celticwarrior » Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:25 pm

Sorry Marhak i usually find your posts informative and interesting but i fail to see what all this rural destruction has to do with smoking. If people in your village stop going to the pub simply because they cant smoke then they are as complicit in the ruin of the pub as the non smokers who don't go in the first place. I think the problem we have in this country is simple (with regard to smoking) people do not like being told what to do (even if in the end its for there own good!)If they were to unban the ban so too speak how many of them therefore would be willing too fore go treatment from the nhs for the smoking related deceases that they have caused themselves by doing something that is harmful to there health therefore saving the British tax payer smoker and non smoker alike millions and millions of pounds.
Its banned end of story get over it and move on or better still quit

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P_Trembath
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Post by P_Trembath » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:21 pm


celticwarrior said:
Sorry Marhak i usually find your posts informative and interesting but i fail to see what all this rural destruction has to do with smoking. If people in your village stop going to the pub simply because they cant smoke then they are as complicit in the ruin of the pub as the non smokers who don't go in the first place. I think the problem we have in this country is simple (with regard to smoking) people do not like being told what to do (even if in the end its for there own good!)If they were to unban the ban so too speak how many of them therefore would be willing too fore go treatment from the nhs for the smoking related deceases that they have caused themselves by doing something that is harmful to there health therefore saving the British tax payer smoker and non smoker alike millions and millions of pounds.
Its banned end of story get over it and move on or better still quit



The problem is not the ban as such, just that the ban is a typical half hearted attempt by the government to be seen to be trying to do something about a health problem that faces us. If the government really wanted to stop people smoking, they would ban it completely, make tobacco a class "A" drug, and ban its import. All the ban has done is to create a situation where smokers are being treated like lepers (while being heavily taxed for their disease). It has led to a situation where some people are banned from smoking in their own homes, their own cars and vans, while it has had no noticeable effect on any increase in profitability of those businesses that have been effected. The non-smokers do not seem to be flooding those pubs and restaurants that are now smoke free, there has been no increase in the use of taxi's. By legislating against the setting up of "smoking rooms" etc all the government has done is to reduce the patronage, and profits of many businesses, whether this will revers itself or not remains to be seen.

A few years ago now, I used to commute to Plymouth university, by train. I used to catch the train from Camborne every morning , yes, even Wednesdays, and the one thing that you could bet on is that the smoking carriage was always almost full, whereas the rest of the train was always almost empty. The thing I found interesting about this is that sometimes a non-smoker got on the smoking carriage, and started to complain about the smoke, despite having an almost empty train to have sat in, and some were not happy about having this pointed out to them.

I agree that it is a basic right of the non-smoker to not be forced to breath in the smoke from inconsiderate smokers, but it is also a basic right for the smoker to smoke if that is his/her wish. By not having "smoking" and "non-smoking" establishments, the smokers rights are being ignored.

As for saving the NHS money by smokers foregoing treatment for their illnesses, because they are self-inflicted, would it not then be fare to suggest that those who require treatment for injury caused by their dangerous driving to fore-go treatment as their injuries were self-inflicted, also Alcoholics, Drug addicts, even Sportsmen. In fact, it could be argued that pregnancy is at least 50% self-inflicted, perhaps we should do away with maternity wards as well, Think of the money the NHS would save then.

I have to say, that being a "serial quitter" (I'll get there one day) the ban has helped me not a jot. I now have to walk past groups of people standing outside buildings that they used to be allowed to smoke in, and be tortured by the wonderful aroma of burning tobacco..................This leads me to believe that the ban is not about helping people to stop, or even to protect those who don't smoke from its dangers, no, it is a scheme dreamed up by the government to encourage people to smoke, so that they can keep taxing them. :-x


Everyone, Cornish or otherwise, has their own particular part to play. No part is too great or too small; no one is too old or too young to do something.

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GrahamHart
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Post by GrahamHart » Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:54 pm

Celtic Warrior, Like your reference to Marhak, I too find your posts interesting , but not on this subject because of your selfishness.

I have always respected the non smokers opinion but you are not reciprocating.

It's really very simple . Create suitable areas for both. Smoking public houses and non Smoking public houses or separate rooms within the same building. Is that so difficult to do ??? Had common sense prevailed, we would not be discussing this.

You also don't seem to give a toss about how this has affected peoples freedom of choice and completely ignored the problems that I have laid out which this stupid " accross the board " ban has thrown up.

A balanced solution is easy, but by doing so logic and compassion has to be called upon. And as I've said before, those two things come exceedingly difficult with governments, made even more annoying that they don't have to practice what they preach in the bars of Westminster.

One thing this debate has made clear is that there is a differing opinion between generations. I respect your views, so please respect those of us oldies.

Excellent posts Marhak and Patrick.




TheMagicRobot
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Post by TheMagicRobot » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:16 am

The trouble with smoking is that although it is immensely pleasurable,it does tend to give you a little bit of cancer.And heart disease.Therefore,of course people should be encouraged to stop,or dissuaded from starting.But I think the main problem here is choice.I don't want to breath others smoke in a pub,but I don't think I've the right to deny others the pleasure of a fag with their pint either,so simply provide two rooms.Seems obvious to me.
There IS the problem of protecting bar staff,but this could be easily solved.Either,serve food and drink only in the non-smoking room,then let the smokers take their drink next door,or,more expensively,fit adequate extraction in smoking areas.
Just give people the choice.

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