The Smoking Ban - An Unmitigated Disaster.

[TheMagicRobot]

How many more times? You dont stink after walking through traffic. You do after walking through cigarette pollution.



But you wouldn't be walking through the smoking room,so you wouldn't smell of smoke.



edited by: TheMagicRobot, May 12, 2009 - 08:34 PM

[Shiner]

So the final conclusion after 14 pages of debate is.....

Smoke can make your clothes smell.

Revelation!

[Masterclass]

Shiner said:
So the final conclusion after 14 pages of debate is.....

Smoke can make your clothes smell.

Revelation!



We have learnt that smokers are upset and going "wah wah wah wah wah wah! Seperate rooms" rather than stand outside. That's about it. If they want to stand in a windowless smokefilled room, then woo and hoo.

Seperate rooms would not work, as the regulations mean that one can't smoke inside, or under anything that is enclosed by 3 walls, or more. Which includes bus shelters.

We also learnt that some people aren't aware that one can't contract away their rights to a safe working environment.

We know that passive smoking is harmful.

EDIT: Another reason that Mr hart is seeing fewer people in pubs is that maybe his gigs aren't as good as they used to be



edited by: Masterclass, May 12, 2009 - 09:07 PM

[Shiner]

If they want to stand in a windowless smokefilled room, then woo and hoo.



Who mentioned windows?

You ain't sharp mate.

[TheMagicRobot]

What this has shown is that smokers seem prepared to have rooms in pubs which are smoke free,but some non smokers are not prepared to return the favour,even though they and pub staff would never come into contact with smoke.

[P_Trembath]

zennorman said:
How many more times? You dont stink after walking through traffic. You do after walking through cigarette pollution.



Actually, that is totally wrong. The reason you do not think you stink after walking through traffic, is that it is a smell that is all around you, you have ceased to notice it, you have become used to it. The fact is that you do stink.

Ask anyone who has recently given up smoking, the senses come back with a vengeance, they will assure you that traffic smells permeate everywhere.

So, with all due respect, your above statement is meaningless.

[Allister]

What this has shown is that smokers seem prepared to have rooms in pubs which are smoke free,but some non smokers are not prepared to return the favour



I'm a smoker who is pro-smoking ban... This isn't a smoker Vs non-smoker issue.

Why is smoking special?

[Masterclass]

Attempts to sidestep rules fails.


A pub landlady's bid to beat the cigarettes ban by creating a "smoking research room" looks set to be foiled.

Kerry Fenton aimed to sidestep smoking regulations by designating a room at the Cutting Edge pub in Worsbrough, South Yorkshire, for smoking research.

[GrahamHart]

I am minded to return to this subject some 20 months after starting it.
A couple of weks ago [ I think, ]  1700 jobs were lost in Redcar in the North East of England and it was the top story of the day.
Since the smoking ban, we are learning of the Pubs closing,  is now running at eight per day. How many jobs have been lost ? . Nobody knows in general how many because they never mention it, let alone give figures and debate it. We've lived through recessions before without the closing of any in my experience.I know everyone in my industry has suffered enormously. My December bookings were down this year by 50% plus.
What other outfalls has it brought ? In my experience:
People cluttering pavements in the towns with broken glases and cigarette butts all over the place leaving daytime shoppers having to walk through them with a feeling of unease.
From a warm atmosphere to freezing cold  conditions resulting in chills and catching colds. I've suffered this four times to date.
Taking up smoking [ three ] as their friends go for a smoke and leave them in mid conversation. I have known no one give up.
However the worst by far is the creation of DIVISION.
Smoking rooms and Non smoking rooms. Smoking pubs and Non smoking pubs. What could be more simple than to cater for everyone ?
In conclusion, the ban was never anything to do with health. It is to do with you  stopping using them. Don't go to your local for a beer and congregate. Stay at home and buy the corporates [ the real people who run this World ] and drink our beer @ £1 per pint.
Can't you see the real reason why ?
We must return to HARMONY and can with compassion and common sense. I wonder what thoughts from those who agreed with the ban at the start, see the situation now.
It's the division it has caused that really pisses me off.

[Marhak]

Diesel fumes will make your clothes reek.  They are also a major cause of lung cancer, and an even greater cause of it than smoking ever is.  No one has a choice about exposure to diesel fumes.  Oil company profits and profiteers.  Mustn't touch them.  Smokers?  The new lepers of the 21st century?  Never mind the fact that the guy who got us through World War II was a smoker.  The freedoms we won then have been taken away by this pig of a government in the last ten years, which makes me wonder why our people ever bothered to fight that, or any, war.  No, send 'em out in the cold and the wet.  Doesn't matter a damn if the tobacco taxes they pay do virtually finance the NHS.  Little wonder there's so much antagonism.
And what about the greatest killer of them all?  The stress caused by unnecessary stress placed upon the population by modern society.  Who is seriously tackling the causes of that?
The solutions to the stress problem are simple – and they'd end wars, too.  Going about those solutions are not.  Abolish currency and abolish organised religion.  Much as we were promised back in the sixties would be our 21st century future.  (Ah, but that's when they also promised there'd be be no toll on the Tamar road Bridge after the first 5 years of its use).

[Carbilly]

Graham, I know of at least 3 people who have given up as a result of the ban - myself and 2 mates. Mainly because we got fed up of being shunted outside to enjoy what used to be an integral part of the pub experience. The rest of your points are valid though, where are the hordes of non smokers who were going to flood the pubs when the ban came in to place?

It is without a doubt the great unmentionable, pubs are closing as a result of the smoking ban. I still miss, at the end of the working week, coming into the pub tired, often wet and cold, for a pint by the fire and rolling a fag. Me, and thousands of others who are avoiding pubs.

[Marhak]

Which is a crying bloody shame for those who are trying to survive through the sheer hard work it takes to run a pub – especially a country pub which doesn't have a catchment area of thousands who can walk to it, like town pubs have.
These rural pubs aren't just pubs – they're the community centres for their entire areas.  My local is the only surviving pub in the entire parish.  Last Christmas, it was shut.  The villagers became strangers for two months because they had nowhere to meet up.  The fact that this village is divided by an A-class road running straight through the middle, and which has no pavements (while a national boy-racer mag advertises it as one of the best roads in Britain to race on, and while we have total police and political apathy regarding the racers who do up to 90mph in a 30mph limit) doesn't help in the slightest.  We're even thinking of investing in a 'stinger'.
Pubs have become the victim of a vindictive government who claim they want to end 'binge-drinking'.  But they don't hit the real offenders – the cheap booze supermarkets and chains like Wetherspoons who sell cheap beer, and who supply the binge-drinkers.  The government's blinkered attitude is killing rural communities.  Soon, we'll be back to the unlicensed 'winks'.
(Now, there's a thought - perhaps we should rebuild the Bog Inn.  If you haven't heard about that legendary place - which does actually exist - then you should have).

[GrahamHart]

Graham, I know of at least 3 people who have given up as a result of the ban – myself and 2 mates. Mainly because we got fed up of being shunted outside to enjoy what used to be an integral part of the pub experience.

Fair enough Carbilly, but against my three who have taken it up, it adds up to amassive failure, don't you agree ? Also it's a gross invasion of human rights. Fancy being a Landlord and being told what you can do inside of your own house.
These links are interesting from France and Germany.
http://www.time.com/time/world.....17,00.html


http://www.time.com/time/world.....ne-sidebar

[Carbilly]

I'm not disagreeing with your fundamental point, just supplying an example of the ban ''encouraging'' people to quit. If you didn't catch ''Today'' on Radio 4 this morning I suggest you try on the listen again facility. The guest editor was Artist and smoking afficienado David Hockney - I think you might enjoy some of the items featured, especially the bit about how they're dealing with the smoking 'ban' in Europe.

[GrahamHart]

Thanks Carbilly. I remember David Hockney defending smokers rights on "Newsnight" before the ban came in. Off for a listen......