The Smoking Ban - An Unmitigated Disaster.

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Shiner
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Post by Shiner » Tue May 05, 2009 9:37 pm

By the way MC you can’t prove I’m paranoid but I can prove you’re ignorant. :-D

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Allister
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Post by Allister » Tue May 05, 2009 10:33 pm


Allister - there are people who are denied NHS drugs because of cost, so the feckless, stupid or evil should not be allowed expensive treatment.



The NHS should provide medical treatment to any and all people regardless of cause.

Some people are refused treatment because of high cost, that policy needs to be reformed. The answer isn't to deny yet more people. :roll:





Shiner
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Post by Shiner » Tue May 05, 2009 10:44 pm


there are people who are denied NHS drugs because of cost



There are people who are denied NHS drugs because big pharma put profits and shareholder's wealth before people's well being.


the feckless, stupid or evil should not be allowed expensive treatment.



How exactly would the NHS distinguish the feckless, stupid or evil ones from the not so fecless, stupid or evil?

Would the local priest get the job of sorting out the evil people? Would local school teachers choose the stupid from the not so daft?

Seems a bizarre statement to come out with.

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GrahamHart
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Post by GrahamHart » Wed May 06, 2009 1:39 am


........ rather than the pathetic abuse of Mr.Hart.

Bleddy 'ell Zennorman !
I just read back on your posts since you joined this debate, and you wonder why I rip the piss a little :-O

Not once have you shown any compassion for your fellow man, and the more you write, the worse it gets. I can hardly believe your right wings views; for that's what they are !
Whenever and wherever you have stated a negative, someone has posted a positive that would rectify your concerns, yet you totally ignore them.

I apologise if I have offended you with a bit of banter Zennorman, but you cannot argue against logic, common sense and compassion, which is what the pro smoking lobby has used all along. You and your ilk also fail abysmally to see that I / We, fully accept and support your right not to be in contact in any way with Tobacco. I am not against the Non Smoker. I'm against Division.

What about you ?

Ps. Could we cut out the Mr Hart please. Graham, GH or gh will do just fine thank you.


Masterclass
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Post by Masterclass » Wed May 06, 2009 11:07 am


Shiner said:

there are people who are denied NHS drugs because of cost



There are people who are denied NHS drugs because big pharma put profits and shareholder's wealth before people's well being.





Shiner, it costs $50,000,000 to get one drug onto the market. That figure does not include all of the other drugs that looked hopeful, and went to trial and failed. teha ttrition rate is huge. As a result of this, drug development is expensive. Hugely expensive.

Big Pharma do not act as benevolent dictators as they've got people to pay, and new drugs to research, paid for by selling drugs they've already developed.

The NHS must allocate it's scant resources to enable the most people to benefit from what it has to offer.



Shiner
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Post by Shiner » Wed May 06, 2009 11:15 am


That figure does not include all of the other drugs that looked hopeful, and went to trial and failed.



Drugs do fail and still go to market, they just cover up the bad results and poison the peeps anyway.

Shiner
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Post by Shiner » Wed May 06, 2009 11:16 am

No one thinks to question why it should cost £50 million to test out a drug.

Masterclass
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Post by Masterclass » Wed May 06, 2009 11:45 am


Shiner said:
No one thinks to question why it should cost £50 million to test out a drug.



It doesn't cost $50million to test a drug.

It costs that to develop a drug from the beginning, with a white sheet of paper, through to it getting to the market.

You've got the research costs of finding a target for the drug. Drug design, in brief:

1) Find a bit in the cell that has gone wrong
2) What does that bit look like?
3) What does that bit do?
4) How can one stick a metaphorical broom through the cogs of the cellular machinery?
5) Find possible compounds that will do this
6) Narrow down the compounds to find one that will do that and only that.
7) Test on animals
8) test on humans
9) Repeat
10) Market.

All of that costs an awful lot of resources.

Masterclass
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Post by Masterclass » Wed May 06, 2009 11:47 am


GrahamHart said:

........ rather than the pathetic abuse of Mr.Hart.

Bleddy 'ell Zennorman !
I just read back on your posts since you joined this debate, and you wonder why I rip the piss a little :-O





GrahamHart said:


Selfish beyond belief chris, materclass,evertype ,trevorpen [ obvoiusly] and marhak; Bloody shameful.

People losing their livelyhoods and you all think it's a lark.

Tossers !


Why do you ignore the separate room option MC you selfish little shit ?


What crap you write MC.


Well there you go MC. You're response tells me you're a total 100% tosspot who I would'nt wipe my ass in, or waste any more energy putting finger to keyboard to your posts.
Enjoy your life. icon_smile ..........now ***** off to a forum of a level that suits you or go watch the telly. CBeebies finish at 7pm.


MC, you refuse to ignore the rights of all and cannot come up with any UK evidence. Therefore your argument is screwed, finished, kaput. Come up with the relevant data that's caused so much damage. Either put up or shut up.


Shiner
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Post by Shiner » Wed May 06, 2009 11:57 am

Thanks.


Masterclass
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Post by Masterclass » Wed May 06, 2009 11:59 am


Shiner said:
Thanks.





No worries, the first bit was poorly worded on my part. $50million is ballpark, although we got the "getting a protein structure" part down to about 5k, IIRC, when I was a scientist. I'll ask tomorrow when i see my virologist friend.

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GrahamHart
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Post by GrahamHart » Wed May 06, 2009 1:51 pm


Masterclass said:
[quote=GrahamHart]
........ rather than the pathetic abuse of Mr.Hart.

Bleddy 'ell Zennorman !
I just read back on your posts since you joined this debate, and you wonder why I rip the piss a little :-O





GrahamHart said:


Selfish beyond belief chris, materclass,evertype ,trevorpen [ obvoiusly] and marhak; Bloody shameful.

People losing their livelyhoods and you all think it's a lark.

Tossers !


Why do you ignore the separate room option MC you selfish little shit ?


What crap you write MC.


Well there you go MC. You're response tells me you're a total 100% tosspot who I would'nt wipe my ass in, or waste any more energy putting finger to keyboard to your posts.
Enjoy your life. icon_smile ..........now ***** off to a forum of a level that suits you or go watch the telly. CBeebies finish at 7pm.


MC, you refuse to ignore the rights of all and cannot come up with any UK evidence. Therefore your argument is screwed, finished, kaput. Come up with the relevant data that's caused so much damage. Either put up or shut up.

[/quote]


??????????????????? I see no mention of zennorman in there. How about getting back to the thread topic MC. How about some REAL ballpoint figures for the UK. I'm still waiting.

Masterclass
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Post by Masterclass » Wed May 06, 2009 4:14 pm


GrahamHart said:
How about some REAL ballpoint figures for the UK. I'm still waiting.



Err, what figures?

I'm not sure what you are asking me for.

Figures to show passive smoking is dangerous and causes illness, as I did that earlier, or what?

Zennorman
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Post by Zennorman » Wed May 06, 2009 8:28 pm

Shiner...if choose to do dangerous sports, shoot up drugs or gash youself on broken glass breaking into someone's home then feckless, stupid and evil are appropriate adjectives. Graham labelling me as right wing....is it right wing that the most deserving in society should be denied treatment because scant resources are going into the above? Pretty much where the 'left' has lost faith with its own natural people I would say. Smokers fall into the dangerous sports category - ironically.

Graham can have his smoking dens if he wants, but I should not have to pick up the tab for the health impact.

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Marhak
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Post by Marhak » Wed May 06, 2009 8:42 pm

Zennorman - you never answered my question about whether your vehicle runs on cancer-causing diesel.

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