STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE, NOW!

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TGG
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STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE, NOW!

Post by TGG » Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:48 pm


A book that we have been waiting for here ?


TGGFor The (Real)Reason Why!
STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE! -
They declare their Cornishness with pride
Whilst oblivious to our genocide
That England imposes
With smiles and Red Roses
Where the innocents, so gullibly, reside.


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TGG
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Re: STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE, NOW!

Post by TGG » Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:54 pm



"Cultural Genocide and Key International Instruments: Framing the Indigenous Experience" (2012) by Shamiran Mako

Sound familiar? Here

TGGFor The (Real)Reason Why!
STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE! -
They declare their Cornishness with pride
Whilst oblivious to our genocide
That England imposes
With smiles and Red Roses
Where the innocents, so gullibly, reside.


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factotum
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Re: STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE, NOW!

Post by factotum » Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:08 am

Interesting, TGG, but it's hundreds of years too late to apply these ideas to the Cornish. Who are the Cornish? How would you recognise a Cornish person amongst a crowd of English people? If you can't recognise them, you can hardly discriminate against them, hence they are not recognised as a group under the Race Relations Acts (or whatever they're called these days) and the criteria are very flexible, including e.g. "New Age Travellers". But the Cornish don't have a distinct physical appearance, lifestyle, language*, religion, manner of dress etc. etc. Possibly they did once, but by now apart from a few rather self-conscious institutions like the Gorsedh, they've pretty well been assimilated into the mainstream of 'Englishness'. Some have a local accent, there may still be the echos of a few local 'folkways' and events (many arificial (re)creations), but that's true of many other parts of 'England', from Cumbria to Kent.

[* Obviously the Cornish language still exists and is learned by a few hundred people each year, but these are as likely to be incomers/outsiders as "true-born Cornish" (whoever they might be). Since there are no Cornish speaking communities no one can really claim the language it as part of their "native culture", it's just a hobby like any other (local history, steam-engines ...) ]

As for Deacon's book, well what is there to say that basically wasn't said, and said very clearly, back in "Cornwall at the Crossroads" however many years ago. No one took much notice then, why should they now? We've probably gone well past the crossroads by now. Is there really much Cornwall left to save? There seems to be no will to take political action, look at all the massive protests that didn't happen when the petition for an assembly was binned by London. Look at the tiny percentage who vote for MK, about on a par with UKIP.

It's no good bleating on here about 'genocide' TGG, (apart from anything else, I don't think anyone else comes here anymore), the way to turn things around is, or more likely would have been, to set up the necessary structures and institutions (political, economic, co-operative, educational ...) to define Cornwall as something different and develop alternative visions. Where is the government-in-waiting? The fund to buy back the land? The embryo of a local economy? Home-grown approaches to education? etc. etc. They don't exist, people would rather rant about 'genocide' than do anything positive.

Scotland may well become a nation again, Wales will be left on a knife-edge (could get more devolution, could get less), but Cornwall is probably a lost cause, although I get no pleasure in saying so.

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TGG
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Re: STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE, NOW!

Post by TGG » Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:05 pm


There is a lot of decolonizing of Cornish history to be undertaken and this is being done, but it is a long and slow process. I could not disagree more with your continuing expressions of negativity and presumed depressive nature in how you read things or why you feel it necessary to even take the trouble to express such negativity if, as you say, it is too late. Unless your personal agenda - as per quote, "They don't exist, people would rather rant about 'genocide' than do anything positive. - is to sow seeds of despair.

There is enough evidence 'out there' to show that Cornwall and the Cornish people have been - and still are! - the target of a sophisticated process of genocide. In fact, a classical example of the principles covered within the document that I linked to above. If the Cornish Movement fails to act with a 'national' purpose as its driving force, then that is something for them to address and resolve. I am simply pointing out the catastrophic nature of such a failure.

It is perhaps timely, therefore, that a new publication "TOWARDS A CORNISH PHILOSOPHY - Values, Thought, and Language for the West Britons in the Twenty-First Century" by Alan M Kent (2013 -Evertype) is now available from major booksellers (£7.95). It is a handbook, which looks at examples of a Cornish Philosophy gleaned from various authors over the centuries and which encourages academia to give the matter of Cornish Philosophy a much higher priority and profile. It is a seriously neglected aspect of the Cornish psyche, which would help us to understand why the Cornish persist in defending their rather unique position withing Britain and the world.

As long as the Cornish believe that they exist, then the Cornish Nation has the right to do all in its power to reverse the very obvious process of Genocide. As Dr Johnson advises us here It is always ours to reclaim - if we have enough resolve and political will to truly bite the bullet!

TGGFor The (Real)Reason Why!
STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE! -
They declare their Cornishness with pride
Whilst oblivious to our genocide
That England imposes
With smiles and Red Roses
Where the innocents, so gullibly, reside.


Fulub-le-Breton
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Re: STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE, NOW!

Post by Fulub-le-Breton » Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:56 pm

Whilst I think TGG's choice of words a real tactical error I agree with him concerning your negativity.

"but Cornwall is probably a lost cause" So why do you bother commenting here on Cornwall 24 then? If all is lost it seems rather paradoxical behaviour to continue commenting on a forum dedicated to promoting the Cornish cause. If you are, as you claim, convinced of the futility of our actions it seems strange that you continue to comment. Why would you do this? Why do you contribute? What motivates you?

Gower
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Re: STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE, NOW!

Post by Gower » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:27 pm

quote from your interesting document;


'In such instances the marginalization of indigenous culture becomes cultural genocide or
ethnocide. Ethnocide means that an ethnic group, collectively or individually, is denied its
right to enjoy, develop and disseminate its own culture and language. Where indigenous peoples
do not face physical destruction, they may nevertheless face disintegration as a distinct
ethnic group through the destruction of their specifi c cultural characteristics.'

Unless a people have been completely wiped out eg; Tasmania, then a complete genocide has not occurred.

Cornish Independence is an inevitability since time and again history shows that empires cannot maintain their hold as communities want autonomy. This does not mean to say that there are not massive losses - especially with language or culture that is eroded - but then that is not to say that these cannot be revived to grow again - and that is up to those who are the guardians of a culture and language and what they do to keep it alive. It is important for groups to hold some kind of coherence and not splinter with pointless infighting. I think theres also a point to be made with some kind of pan-Celtic alliance. Theres much more consciousness of the move towards an independence for Cornwall than there was twenty years ago.

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TGG
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Re: STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE, NOW!

Post by TGG » Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:43 pm


Gower, many thanks for such a positive contribution that actually quotes from evidence provided and adds further supporting comment on the issues about which this topic is concerned. I could not agree more with your comment and I just wish that others would treat the subject more objectively, rather than the usual subjective dismissal or denial of it as a significant factor negatively affecting us all daily. If we do not recognize the basic problems, then we are failing in acknowledging how these should be overcome.

We have the ammunition; others have provided the tools, so.... LET US ALL USE IT ALL!

TGGFor The (Real)Reason Why!
STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE! -
They declare their Cornishness with pride
Whilst oblivious to our genocide
That England imposes
With smiles and Red Roses
Where the innocents, so gullibly, reside.


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TGG
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Re: STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE, NOW!

Post by TGG » Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:19 pm


On the matter of 'genocide versus 'ethnocide', it should be understood that Lemkin felt that both terms conveyed the same meaning and opted to use the term Genocide for his definition. It is only because the UN Convention only included 'physical' and 'biological' methods that there has been attempts to imply some difference between the two terms. There have been many attempts to define the latter, simply to differentiate it from the limited forms in the UN Convention. One such definition and closer to the Cornish scenario (within the notes on Cultural Genocide in the above document, linked to) is:

"Niezen contends that ethnocide or cultural genocide 'occurs more often where the state has a firm grip over a subject people but is still striving to secure its national identity. It is usually manifested in policies or programs of ‘assimilation’ aimed at eliminating stark cultural differences and rival claims to sovereignty that arise from first occupation of a territory. Its goal is the elimination of knowledge of, and attachments to, distinct and inconvenient ways of life'
(R. Niezen, The Origins of Indigenism: Human Rights and the Politics of Identity (University of California Press, Berkeley and Los Angeles, 2003) p. 55). "


What is still missed by all this is that it all comes under the heading of 'Genocide' - as defined by Lemkin. Most people do not even understand ethnicity, let alone ethnocide, so why resort to esoteric euphemisms to convey the actions of the unspeakable evil of Imperialism.

Other definitions of 'ethnocide' do not fit the Cornish scenario so well, because generally there is no limit to what anyone can do as individuals, or as a group, in the name of culture. It is, therefore, a non-starter. The Cornish scenario involves many of the 'techniques' defined by Lemkin and not just culture, namely:

"Lemkin’s analysis enumerated several dimensions of genocide not limited to the physical and biological destruction of a people, but rather encompassed a wide spectrum of non-physical destruction such as political, social, cultural, economic, religious, moral, as well as biological and physical. In broader terms, genocide was a systematic plan to destroy the group by various means and over a spectrum of time"

Let us have the confidence and commitment of our Territory; our true Constitution; our Language; our History etc., and stop pussyfooting around!

TGGFor The (Real)Reason Why!
STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE! -
They declare their Cornishness with pride
Whilst oblivious to our genocide
That England imposes
With smiles and Red Roses
Where the innocents, so gullibly, reside.


Trevorpen
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Re: STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE, NOW!

Post by Trevorpen » Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:53 pm

Haven't looked at the discussion board on this site as it has become so repetitive and boring.
Same old nonsense (wtf is 'Cornish Genocide), from the same 1 or 2 contributors.

Gower
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Re: STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE, NOW!

Post by Gower » Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:31 pm

Article 7 of a 1994 draft of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples uses the phrase "cultural genocide" but does not define what it means. The complete article reads as follows:

Indigenous peoples have the collective and individual right not to be subjected to ethnocide and cultural genocide, including prevention of and redress for:

(a) Any action which has the aim or effect of depriving them of their integrity as distinct peoples, or of their cultural values or ethnic identities;

(b) Any action which has the aim or effect of dispossessing them of their lands, territories or resources;

(c) Any form of population transfer which has the aim or effect of violating or undermining any of their rights;

(d) Any form of assimilation or integration by other cultures or ways of life imposed on them by legislative, administrative or other measures;

(e) Any form of propaganda directed against them.

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TGG
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Re: STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE, NOW!

Post by TGG » Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:20 am


Trevorpen » 01 Nov 2013 16:53

Haven't looked at the discussion board on this site as it has become so repetitive and boring.
Same old nonsense (wtf is 'Cornish Genocide), from the same 1 or 2 contributors.
Gobbledygook! You pose a question, whilst simultaneously affirming that you already know the answer. How weird is that?

BTW, as a Cornish person, what responses did you give to questions 9, 15, 16 & 18 in the 2011 Census?

TGGFor The (Real)Reason Why![/size]
STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE! -
They declare their Cornishness with pride
Whilst oblivious to our genocide
That England imposes
With smiles and Red Roses
Where the innocents, so gullibly, reside.


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factotum
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Re: STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE, NOW!

Post by factotum » Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:49 pm

Gower @
Please show us your evidence that there is increasing demand for Cornish autonomy, what an inspiration that would be! More to the point perhaps, what steps are being taken to achieve this end, whether political, social, cultural, financial etc. My impression, and hence my depression, is that things seem to have gone backwards not forwards. Show me how wrong I am, but with evidence, not assertions.

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factotum
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Re: STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE, NOW!

Post by factotum » Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:04 pm

TGG @
I have no doubt that "Cornish genocide" as you define it has happened to a greater or lesser extent at various times in the past, and might well be continuing in an insidious low-key sneaky fashion at the present time. OTOH it might simply be that 'Cornishness' no longer has much attraction for most people, or has simply degenerated to harmless tokenism. Neverless, even if 'genocide' is in progress, pointing it out as you're trying to do, will have no effect unless (a) there is some practical strategy to reversing the process, and (b) there are a large enough body of people willing and able to put those plans into action. Without that, simply documenting the ways Cornwall and Cornishness are going rapidly down the tubes, is simply depressing, negative. And you folks wonder why I'm pessimistic ... that's why!

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TGG
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Re: STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE, NOW!

Post by TGG » Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:09 pm


by factotum » Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:04 pm

Neverless, even if 'genocide' is in progress, pointing it out as you're trying to do, will have no effect unless

(a) there is some practical strategy to reversing the process, and
(b) there are a large enough body of people willing and able to put those plans into action.

Without that, simply documenting the ways Cornwall and Cornishness are going rapidly down the tubes, is simply depressing, negative. And you folks wonder why I'm pessimistic ... that's why!"
Two good points there. I am more than certain that 'a' exists, but that 'b' is lacking, because those responsible for 'a' are not publicly 'reaching out' and/or taking advantage of the political arsenal that is available to them. It goes back to what I have always maintained that the Cornish Movement operates each in their own particular bubbles and there is no coming together to discuss a proper strategy and the ability to speak with one voice, therefore they corporately make the task harder and longer to achieve results.

Despite the way that you personally choose to perceive it, I am not documenting the ways that 'Cornwall and Cornishness are going rapidly down the tubes, which is something of a misnomer given the growth in awareness over the past 60 plus years. What I am doing, and what I can only do, is to target the current 'activists' (and others with an open mind) to make them, in turn, aware of the technical term(s) relating to the evil that they already understand, but hitherto fail, miserably, to put two and two together to make 'four' and tell it as it is.

At the moment, the maths seem to be beyond them as they defer to the EIS systems of action & control - hence why they are consistently ignored and things take longer. In the meantime, what I have to say, is read by others and may have positive results along the way and another inertia will develop. I do not, however, doubt the existence of closed-mind negativity and denial, but the Cornish Movement certainly needs to get its act together.

TGGFor The (Real)Reason Why![/size]
STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE! -
They declare their Cornishness with pride
Whilst oblivious to our genocide
That England imposes
With smiles and Red Roses
Where the innocents, so gullibly, reside.


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TGG
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Re: STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE, NOW!

Post by TGG » Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:12 pm


Must be ESP !!!!

TGGFor The (Real)Reason Why!
STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE! -
They declare their Cornishness with pride
Whilst oblivious to our genocide
That England imposes
With smiles and Red Roses
Where the innocents, so gullibly, reside.


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