King list - Book of Baglan

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Ellery
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King list - Book of Baglan

Post by Ellery » Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:52 am

Wentslade
Gwill'm, sone to Jenkin, sone to Adam, lord of llanllowell and Bechley, sone to Herbert, " , sone to Peeter, " , sone to Reignallt, lord of Deane forest, sone to Peeter, " , sone to Herbert, " , sone to the Lord Herbert, Sone to the lord Henrie, Chamberlen to King Henrie the ffirst of that name in England aftere the Conquest, Sone to the Lord Herbert of Cornwall, Sone to Godwyn, Ducke of Cornwall and Westsex, sone to Alured, d' of C' & W', sone to Vephyne, d' of C' & W', sone to Vortegyn, d' of C' & W',

ap Rolopedaph, d' of C'
ap Alenor, d' of C'
ap Elnyd, d' of C'
ap fferverdyn, d' of C'
ap mordaph, d' of C'
ap Hopkin, d' of C'
ap Hernam, d' of C'
ap Ostwallt, d' of C'
ap Canordolye, d' of C'

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Ellery
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Re: King list - Book of Baglan

Post by Ellery » Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:58 am

ap Dyfnuall "
ap Ithel "
ap Dwn "
ap Caret "
ap Coilbye "
ap Progmaell "
ap Pedrock "
ap Clement "
ap Bredrice "
ap Constantyn k' of B

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Ellery
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Re: King list - Book of Baglan

Post by Ellery » Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:06 am

ap Cador, d' of C'
ap Gurleis "
ap Sortogus "
ap Pendoff, the great ducke of C' & Wetsex
ap Golor, d' of C'
ap Moure "
ap Owen "
ap Maxentius, king of Brittaine & Emperoure of Rome

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Ellery
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Re: King list - Book of Baglan

Post by Ellery » Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:28 am

ap llewellinus, senator of Rome in the tyme of his brother Coell godeboc being then king of great Brittaine
ap Tegvan
ap Dehensaraint
ap Tydhwlf
ap Urban
ap Gradh
ap Rynedel
ap Rethergh
ap Endigant
ap Endeirne
ap Enyd
ap Endos
ap Endholen
ap Afalhalch
ap Aflech
ap lludh, king of Brittaine

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Ellery
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Re: King list - Book of Baglan

Post by Ellery » Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:46 am

ap Belye, K' of B'
ap Mynogen "
ap Kapoyr "
ap Pyrr "
ap Sawle "
ap Rythergh "
ap Ridion "
ap Eidal "
ap Archmael, K' of B' after the death of his brother Blegwrid was made king of B'
ap Sisillt, K' of B'
ap Owen "
ap Caph "
ap Blehut "
ap Meyriawn "
ap Gorwst "
ap Clydno "
ap Klydawek "
ap Elnyd "
ap Urien "
ap Andreas "
ap Kyrien, K' of B' after the death of his two brothers fulgen and Eidal, became king of Brittayne

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Marhak
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Re: King list - Book of Baglan

Post by Marhak » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:01 pm

Can you tell us more about the Book of Baglan itself, Ellery? It obviously dates from after Henry I. What's its provenance? Who's the author? (etc.). I'd not come across it before and would like to learn more.

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Ellery
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Re: King list - Book of Baglan

Post by Ellery » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:32 pm

ap Kyrien K' of B'
ap Porrex "
ap Coel "
ap Rudelh "
ap Keiraint "
ap Elidur "
ap Morudh, K' of B', who aftere the deathof his two brothers was made K' of B'. The said Mordudh was the second sone to Sisillt who after the death of his brother Kynfarch became K' of B'
ap Sisillt, K' of B'
ap Kyhelyn "
ap Gwrgan farfdrwch "
ap Belye "

It's a Welsh collection of genealogies and heraldry compiled between the years 1600 and 1607 by John Williams. It was printed in 1910, in 385 pages, edited by /joseph Bradney, BA, FSA. It's maily south Wesh gentry and some royal lineages.

Apart from the main Cornish genealogy it also contains mentions of other Cornish rulers and families.
Candor, a brittan, was at the conq. tyme E. of Cornewal and did homag to the conq. wm for his Earldom, and had issue a sone named Candor who was 2 E. of Cornwall next after the Conquest. Candor had a da. & h. called Avicia ma. to Raynold, E. of Bristow, and in her right was E. of Cornewall; beareth S., 10 beusants o., 4, 3, 2, 1.

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Marhak
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Re: King list - Book of Baglan

Post by Marhak » Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:04 pm

This will be the guy described by William of Worcester (?) as "Cador or Condor" last of the Cornish royal line.

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Marhak
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Re: King list - Book of Baglan

Post by Marhak » Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:05 pm

Or William of Malmesbury. Haven't time right now to verify which of them it was.

Karesk
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Re: King list - Book of Baglan

Post by Karesk » Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:33 pm

William of Worcester, writing about Castle an Dinas in 1478, says "There Cador Duke of Cornwall, husband of the mother of Arthur, was slain." He is mixing up Cador and Gorlois, both Dukes of Cornwall in the Arthurian legend.

Camden 1586 but I'm quoting from a 17th century translation: "As for the Earles, none of British bloud are mentioned but only Candorus (called by others Cadocus) who is accounted by late writers the last Earle of Cornwall of British race".

Carew 1602: "What time William the Bastard subdued this realm, one Condor possessed the Earldom of Cornwall,and did homage for the same: he had issue another Condor......This note I borrowed out of an industrious collection which setteth down all the notable men's creations, arms, and principal descents, in every king's days since the conquest: but Master Camden nameth him Cadoc...."

One possibility is that this is the character from Arthurian legend, and someone has made a mistake about the period he belongs to, because I don't think there's any 11th century record of his existence and an Earl is more of an English (originally Danish) than a British concept. I think that many of the 16th/17th century antiquarians were in contact and borrowed information from each other.

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