Angof

Ask your questions about Cornwall here. Whether it be Where, When, Who, What and Why someone\'s sure to know the answer.
Post Reply
Carbilly
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:43 pm

Post by Carbilly » Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:49 am

The surname Angove is descended from Angof, 'the Smith', as in Myghal Joseph. Often, in the context of Myghal Joseph, the name is pronounced 'Angoff', to rhyme with 'Off'. Was the original pronunciation of Angof to rhyme with 'guv', or was it, as in the current pronunciation of the surname, to rhyme with 'hove'.

Either way, does the historic spelling and modern pronunciation of the name prove that a single 'f' in Cornish was pronounced the same as in Welsh - ie, as a 'V' sound.

Hope this all makes sense!:lol:

CJenkin
Posts: 1332
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:01 pm

Post by CJenkin » Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:04 pm

Carbilly said:
The surname Angove is descended from Angof, 'the Smith', as in Myghal Joseph. Often, in the context of Myghal Joseph, the name is pronounced 'Angoff', to rhyme with 'Off'. Was the original pronunciation of Angof to rhyme with 'guv', or was it, as in the current pronunciation of the surname, to rhyme with 'hove'.
Either way, does the historic spelling and modern pronunciation of the name prove that a single 'f' in Cornish was pronounced the same as in Welsh - ie, as a 'V' sound.
Hope this all makes sense!:lol:


Historical spelling was not fixed and f and v were often interchangeable. The clue in many cornish names is to look for the silent english e and remove it. When English went through the great vowel shift english pronunciation of vowels shifted and unfortunately we generally now apply that to Cornish words - so originally it was An Gov(e) i.e Gov which neither rhymes with off or hove or guv.
But you are quite right the final sound is certainly 'v'.

User avatar
Marhak
Posts: 11075
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:46 am

Post by Marhak » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:31 am

I understand the vowel to be long, so 'gauv'.

CJenkin
Posts: 1332
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:01 pm

Post by CJenkin » Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:59 pm

yes the vowel is long, the IPA using x-sampa is ['gO:v] whether gauv represents that sound only marhak could tell us.
I find NJ Williams explanation of length helpful. You might like to think of the vowel being prolonged e.g. g OOO v to distinguish it from a short (or half-long) vowel.
Personally I think people can worry too much about recommended realisation - there's plenty of room for some variation in vowel realisation in spoken Cornish and they are usually mutually intelligible.

User avatar
Mark
Posts: 585
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:25 pm
Location: Nowhere in England

Re: Angof

Post by Mark » Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:46 pm

Just come across a 'William Angoffe' in the Muster Roll for Ludgvan in 1569.
As long as a hundred of us remain alive, we shall never give in to the domination of the English. We fight not for glory, not for wealth nor honours but only and alone for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life...

Pokorny
Posts: 541
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Angof

Post by Pokorny » Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:03 pm

In 16th century Cornish texts, double consonants were sometimes written after long vowels, e.g. kigg and kigge for 'meat, flesh' [ki:g] (= approximately "keeg") in Sacrament an Aulter (1576).
In the same text, we also find the spelling gwiell for 'to do' [gwi:l] (probably pronounced like "gweel" after the French-style Middle Cornish vowel u had become unrounded), with double l after the long vowel. The distribution of -v, -f, and -ff is also often ambiguous. So the 1569 spelling Angoffe may well have stood for the traditional Cornish pronunciation [an'gɔ:v] (= "an GAUV").

User avatar
Marhak
Posts: 11075
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:46 am

Re: Angof

Post by Marhak » Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:38 pm

Above Ludgvan, on the southern slopes of Castle-an-dinas but technically in Gulval parish, is the farm of Hellangove. hel= 'hall' + an gov, 'the smith' or the surname 'Angov'

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest