"a crude colonial power in decline"

Discussion about what\'s going on outside of Cornwall
Cormorant
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Re: "a crude colonial power in decline"

Post by Cormorant » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:57 am

Why will the Falklands remain British?

Oil and Gas.

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Marhak
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Re: "a crude colonial power in decline"

Post by Marhak » Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:18 pm

And that's why they'll become Argentinian. Because Argentina wants those things, too, and when they walk in again, there'll be nothing Britain can do about it. The islands can no longer be defended, and you can blame the morons in London for that.

24-7
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Re: "a crude colonial power in decline"

Post by 24-7 » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:10 pm

Marhak,"The islands can no longer be defended,"

Mike "The USA would no doubt prefer Argentina in charge"

Where are you getting these ideas, how do you arrive at the thought that the UK couldn't defend the Islands? And I doubt Argentina could raise a flag let alone an invasion they wouldn't get near doing this before taking a heavy number of casualties.

And it is mightily hypocritical of some to take the moral high ground and moan about another old colonial power keeping hold of some claimed land. So let's support the emancipation of the indigenous tribes from the old European masters, in Argentina, first. Then others might be in a better position to criticise us.

24-7
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Re: "a crude colonial power in decline"

Post by 24-7 » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:45 pm

First off, the oil drilling is not happening at present and the US and Britain are real allies. And if you want troops they'd come by air. O and if you're reading the press then what the hell do they know?

Why the need for the aircraft carriers? Cos old banjo west thinks it is a good idea?

I'll post more if you have any questions. I am off to bed for now, early start!

TheVisitor
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Re: "a crude colonial power in decline"

Post by TheVisitor » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:16 am

24-7 wrote:First off, the oil drilling is not happening at present and the US and Britain are real allies. And if you want troops they'd come by air. O and if you're reading the press then what the hell do they know?

Why the need for the aircraft carriers? Cos old banjo west thinks it is a good idea?

I'll post more if you have any questions. I am off to bed for now, early start!
The US and Britain are allies when it suits the US.How would aicraft carrying British troops land on an island seized and occupied by Argentinian forces?Why the need for aircraft carriers,you ask?Because since WWII,they have proved to be the best way of projecting millitary power around the globe.How else can aircraft operate thousands of miles away from friendly soil?

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Marhak
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Re: "a crude colonial power in decline"

Post by Marhak » Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:44 pm

And troops will not land without adequate air cover. Not that we even have the planes to do that now.

The Bretons were the first to colonise the Falklands in 1764, with families from St Malo (hence Malouines/Malvinas in Spanish), which didn't stop John Byron from unlawfully claiming them for George III the following year. Spain bought the islands from the French in 1770 and expelled an illegal British colony. Wih a threat of war, Britain and Spain thrashed it out to allow a British presence but these were pulled out in 1774, with the American War of Independence looming. The British left a plaque declaring their claim to the islands. Nonethelss the Spanish continued to adminster the islands until 1806, also leaving a plaque asserting Spanish ownership, and leaving the governance to the United Provinces of the River Plate, who withdrew Spanish settlers in 1811. 30 years later, in the height of their Empire years, in march the British to establish the first permanent settlement, and that's the way it's been ever since, along with the arguments. Britain's claim to the islands is tenuous at best.

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P_Trembath
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Re: "a crude colonial power in decline"

Post by P_Trembath » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:29 pm

Marhak wrote:Britain's claim to the islands is tenuous at best.
But, the people who live there consider themselves to be British, and surely that is what should count.

It is not who owns, or who has the most valid claim on the piece of land, but what those who have lived there, for the last 170 years, having apparently taken up residence in an empty land, consider themselves to be that is important.

They did not move into an already inhabited island. When they moved in, they considered themselves to be British. Unless they decide they wish to be something else, then British they should remain. Unless, Britain no longer wishes them to be British, in which case, Britain should come clean and tell them so. so that they can then choose what they wish to be instead. If they wish to become Argentinian, and Argentina wishes to accept them, then fair enough, equally, if they wish to become Portuguese, and Portugal wishes to accept them, fair enough. Even if they wish to become simple "Falkland Islanders", or "Malvinains", then they should be permitted to do so, and the rest of the world should respect their wishes.
Everyone, Cornish or otherwise, has their own particular part to play. No part is too great or too small; no one is too old or too young to do something.

Cymro
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Re: "a crude colonial power in decline"

Post by Cymro » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:32 pm

P_Trembath wrote:Unless, Britain no longer wishes them to be British, in which case, Britain should come clean

You mean like when Thatcher started the process of depriving them of British citizenship?

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Marhak
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Re: "a crude colonial power in decline"

Post by Marhak » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:49 pm

I can think of many uninhabited islands, but if I decide to move into one, it doesn't necessarily make it mine.

24-7
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Re: "a crude colonial power in decline"

Post by 24-7 » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:20 pm

"Every one of your comments is way out of accord with anything published on the subject. It's almost a stubborn arrogance."


"Argentina on Tuesday is scheduled to make its annual presentation before the United Nations" "This farce has been going on so long it has become a 'tradition'." "as it has been doing since 1989"

The UN are impartial and look for an agreement and if Argentina table an idea the UK can veto it. It is emotive, when the Argentinians claim the rock belongs to them, the Spanish and French have done the same in the past. Add one failing Argentinian president trying to win voters after British companies attempt looking for oil in who's territorial waters?

Both Britain and the Falklands governments made it clear about negotiations. I think also the UN would look to the people who live on Island first.

“Cameron
sovereignty is not negotiable, and that’s the end of it."

They couldn't take the Islands by force and we are not about to give them up.

PS what i mean here is i don't see anything other than talking this up from the press when oil drilling was on the cards, that's now 12 months old and nothing has happened.

carrek
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Re: "a crude colonial power in decline"

Post by carrek » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:58 pm

It should have nothing to do with what belongs to who or who historically had what, what matters is how the islanders themselves want to be governed. If they want to be British then Argentina should just butt out. If they wanted to be Argentinian then the UK would have to butt out. Same with Kashmir, Pakistan and India fighting over a bit of land that's "theirs", when really it's the Kashmiri's, who would rather be independent. This is just the political class fighting over territory, like pissing apes, the way it's been for centuries. Democracy doesn't get a look in when "territorial integrity" (whatever the f*ck that is) is involved.

24-7
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Re: "a crude colonial power in decline"

Post by 24-7 » Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:33 pm

"what matters is how the islanders themselves want to be governed."

That's very important and I don't deliberately disagree with what people write or the press, I think however too many focus on the Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, claim and a key argument of hers based around a cause that's seems more significant to some than others and something that has been going on for sometime.

And if we did strike oil there would be issues, I realise this much. But last year I sat waiting for the results from Desire petroleum and read lots of rubbish in the press about 'an invasion' which never happened!

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