Alys in Pow an Anethow in Kernowek - Alices Adventures in Wonderland in Cornish

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Evertype
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Post by Evertype » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:16 am

Alys in Pow an Anethow dyllys in Kernowek



Lien an tavas Kernowek a gemeras càm brâs in rag agensow pan veu dyllys trailyans Kernowek a'n lyver Alys in Pow an Anethow gans Lewis Carroll. Jowal bian a lien an flehes yw an lyver Sowsnek, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, a veu dyllys rag an kensa prës i'n vledhen 1865. Trailyansow in lies tavas dyvers re dhysqwedhas dhia an termyn-na. Trailyer an versyon Kernowek, an Descajor Nicholas Williams, yw scoler a'n tavosow Keltek usy tregys in Wordhen. Kyns ès ev dhe barusy an lyver-ma, ev a drailyas hag a dhyllas an lyver in Godhalek Wordhen. Y feu y drailyans ev degemerys gans gormola brâs hag lies onen a'n redyoryon a leverys fatell o an trailyans Godhalek gwell ès an versyon Sowsnek a veu va fùndys warnodho. Uhel dres ehen yw savon an Kernowek ûsys gans an Descajor Williams, dell yw gwyw rag lyver bryntyn kepar ha hebma. Heb dowt y fëdh y drailyans a versyow Carroll consydrys i'n termyn a dheu avell jowals bian in lien agan yêth ny.

Yma an lyver screfys i'n spellyans gelwys Kernowek Standard. Hen yw pòr ogas dhe lytherednans an Furv Savonek Scrifys, an spellyans unverhes rag ûsadow i'n bewnans poblek hag i'n scolyow. Saw nebes fowtys bian i'n Furv Savonek Scrifys re beu emendys in Kernowek Standard, hag yma toknys diacrytek ûsys ino kefrës dhe dhysqwedhes an dyffrans inter geryow spellys in kepar maner, bò dhe verkya vogalednow a vëdh leverys in fordhow dyffrans. Pynag oll a allo redya an Furv Savonek Scrifys a yllvyth redya an versyon-ma heb ancombrynsy vëth.

Y feu gwelys delinyansow gerys dâ Syr John Tenniel i'n kensa dyllans a'n lyver in Sowsnek. Yma an pyctours-na gwelys in versyon Kernowek kefrës. Dre vrâs yma an trailyans-ma kepar ha kensa dyllans, saw unsel ev dhe vos in Kernowek. Y feu an dyllans-ma olsettys ha dyllys gans Evertype, Cathair na Mart, Wordhen.

Y hyll cafos copiow a'n lyver dhyworth Amazon.co.uk, dhyworth Amazon.com, bò dhyworth Spyrys a Gernow. Y fëdh tus abyl dhe brena copiow orth an Kescùssulyans a vëdh sensys gans MAGA in Lostwydhyel an 31 Genver 2009. Gweler evertype.com/books/alys.html








edited by: Evertype, Apr 14, 2009 - 11:22 AM

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Post by Evertype » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:17 am

Alice's Adventures in Wonderland published in Cornish

Literature in the Cornish language has taken a leap forward with the publication recently of a translation into the language of Alice's Adventures in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll. The book Alice's Adventures in Wonderland is a treasure of English children's literature and was first published in 1865. It has been translated into many languages. The translator, Professor Nicholas Williams, is a Celtic scholar based in Ireland. Previous to the Cornish edition he translated and published the book in Irish. This received great critical acclaim with many readers of the view that the Irish version was better than the original English. The Cornish used by Professor Williams is of a very high standard as befits a gem of English literature. His translation of Carroll's poetry will be regarded as gem of Cornish literature.

This book is written in the spelling called Kernowek Standard. It is very close to the orthography of the new Standard Written Form, the consensual spelling for use in public life and schools, except that some small errors in the Standard Written Form have been amended in this spelling, and diacritical marks are also used to show the differences between homonyms or to indicate vowels which are pronounced in different ways. Anyone who can read the Standard Written Form will be able to read this version without any difficulty.

This new book contains the famous illustrations of Sir John Tenniel, which first appeared in the original English edition. Overall the appearance of the book is that of a first edition except that it is in Cornish. The book was typeset and published by Evertype, Westport, Ireland.

Copies may be obtained from Amazon.co.uk, Amazon.com. or from Spyrys a Gernow. They will be available at the Seminar being held by Maga at Lostwithiel on 31st January 2009. See [url=evertype.com/books/alys.html]evertype.com/books/alys.html[/url
Last edited by Evertype on Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

Morvran
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Post by Morvran » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:06 am

With the price sensibly set just under £10 so as to undercut the existing Cornish language edition, this volume will no doubt like the UCR NT and probably Williams' Dictionary, be bought as a curiosity by many who know no Cornish. I would not recommend it to a beginner, if judging by the sample, many of the vowels are screwed up according to Njaw's crackpot theories. The text is, as we can only expect from the House of Neverlearn, defaced and pockmarked by many diacritics as unsightly as they are unnecessary. This is largely occasioned by the translators' antiquarian outlook, which causes him to reject the spelling used by almost all other modern Cornish language publications. Since a Cornish translation has existed for a number of years and is still in print, this I think counts simply as a pretty book turned out with minimum effort (the illustrations have been ripped-off from the original English edition). Once again Dr. Williams and Mr. Everson have laboured to produce an unncessary publication, presumably as a spoiling tactic, where they might have taken the opportunity to enlarge the resources of the language.

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Post by Eddie-C » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:49 am

Since Prof. Williams' translations of "Alys in Pow an Anethow" isn't a 'reprint from 30 years ago', but rather a new addition to the corpus of our language's revived literature, one might expect Kernewegoryon of good heart to welcome this new publication (regardless of their personal spelling preferences).

This is not unreasonable, I think. After all, when the CLP published the illustrated 'Porth' series for young children, many of us would have welcomed it, despite few of us using the SWF, and despite reservations about the linguistic design of their contents.

However, this 'Alys' is a different case altogether, at least to judge by Keith 'morvran' Bailey's response. Evidently, it's a deeply flawed little book:
-- it's written by the Great Satan (NJAW),
-- it's published by the Little Satan (ME)
-- it's in Kernowak Standard
-- it's not in KK
-- there are hints that it might just be the thin end of the wedge, with many more similar books to follow.

No wonder Keithy is aghast!

Perhaps he'd like to come along to the meeting of MAGA (one of his many least favourite Cornish language organisations) to see some new things that other people will probably find very much to their taste.

But I doubt very much if he has the balls!

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Post by Marhak » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:32 am

That Keith should fly in on the attack without even seeing the book is hardly to be unexpected, for the very reasons listed by Eddie.

If there was a translation of Alice 30 years ago, how come I've never heard of it? Never seen it? I thought I'd seen just about everything published in Cornish. It can't have been very well promoted.

Note, too, the deliberately volatile language Keith uses - "crackpot" used against the translator, illustrations "ripped-off" from the English original. Personally, it's a delight to see those illustrations used. I have several Hachette editions of Jules Verne novels, each featuring facsimiles of the superb original illustrations commissioned by the original publisher, Hetzel. Would you describe them as "ripped-off", Keith? No, you wouldn't, and probably because neither Williams nor Everson were involved in those publications. I find it hard to believe this irrational hatred for two men he has probably never met, but then it's easy to attack good production when he himself produces nothing but bluster. Strange how he and others snipe at our alleged lack of publications but moan like hell when we do publish.

I will be proud to purchase and own a copy of this book and, in my view, the Cornish language community should be equally delighted to see its appearance. May there be many more like it.







edited by: marhak, Jan 22, 2009 - 08:42 AM

She
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Post by She » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:15 am

it's good to see a well-known book published in Cornish but disappointing that it's not in the SWF, and surely the authors realise that as it cannot therefore be recommended to learners in schools their potential sales will take a massive knock?

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Post by Eddie-C » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:09 am


she said:
it's good to see a well-known book published in Cornish but disappointing that it's not in the SWF, and surely the authors realise that as it cannot therefore be recommended to learners in schools their potential sales will take a massive knock?

That's incorrect, actually. As I inderstand the CLP's position, it's only initial learners' material that must be in the SWF (Main). Literature is acceptable in schools in both SWF (Trad) and in other orthographies as well.

And, of course, Alys in Pow an Anethow must count as literature -- and the language will be too advanced for beginners; it'd have to be aimed at post-16 students, at the very least, I'd have thought. Beginners' Cornish it isn't!

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Post by Evertype » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:14 am

What a sweet little political essay we've had from Keith.


morvran said:
With the price sensibly set just under £10 so as to undercut the existing Cornish language edition,

Untrue. The price was set in accordance with the price of the Irish-language and English-language edition published by Evertype. This allegation of Keith's is his own defamatory fiction.


this volume will no doubt like the UCR NT and probably Williams' Dictionary, be bought as a curiosity by many who know no Cornish.

No doubt the same can be said of the KK NT and the Gerlyvrik.


I would not recommend it to a beginner, if judging by the sample, many of the vowels are screwed up according to Njaw's crackpot theories.

The vowels are the same as those in the SWF, and Keith hates the SWF because it is not Kernowek Kebmyn.


The text is, as we can only expect from the House of Neverlearn, defaced and pockmarked by many diacritics as unsightly as they are unnecessary.

Keith, you're such a bore. And a boor. You haven't even seen the book! :lol: I'm pretty sure you've no real understanding of the principles of KS, and accordingly, no idea how many or how few diacritics there are. Putting a couple of dots on bÿs is a great deal less unsightly than *Kammbronn. :roll: The are necessary to indicate correct pronunciation. But they certainly would not prevent reading.


This is largely occasioned by the translators' antiquarian outlook,

We do not apologize for preferring traditional orthographic forms.


which causes him to reject the spelling used by almost all other modern Cornish language publications.

I assume by this you mean Kernowek Kebmyn. We do not apologize for rejecting Kernowek Kebmyn.


Since a Cornish translation has existed for a number of years and is still in print,

This is a new translation. We did acknowledge Ray Edwards' translation, even citing a bit of his translation at one point in the book.


this I think counts simply as a pretty book turned out with minimum effort (the illustrations have been ripped-off from the original English edition).

Most editions of alice use the classic original illustrations. Where text appears on these, however, it has been put into Cornish. You are hardly in a position to say anything about what the book looks like as you have not seen it, Keith. I'm sure you'll be able to compare the quality of the publication and infer something about the "effort" it took to produce it once you see it. You'll be able to compare that to the mimeographed copy of Edwards' edition as well.


Once again Dr. Williams and Mr. Everson have laboured to produce an unncessary publication, presumably as a spoiling tactic, where they might have taken the opportunity to enlarge the resources of the language.

I don't know what it is that you think "a spoiling tactic" is. This is a book. It is one of many books we have planned for publication.

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Eddie-C
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Post by Eddie-C » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:33 am

As a point of information, Ray Edwards produced a KK translation of 'Alice' some years ago. I haven't read it, as I avoid KK publications, but he's to be praised for his efforts.

In the same way, Nicholas Williams is to be congratulated for his efforts in producing a new translation of 'Alice' in authentic Cornish. Even thought I don't write KS myself at present, I'll be buying a copy at the Lost Wydhyel meeting, and look forward to enjoying a good read. Certainly, the sample of the text on Evertype's web site shows the Cornish to be excellent.

Keith 'morvran' Bailey makes 2 snide allegations of plagiarism/theft against Williams and Everson:
-- that Williams plagiarised Edwards' translation so as to produce his own version "with minimum effort". Has he carried out a detailed textual comparison between the 2 translations to substantiate this claim? I doubt it, but we may await his detailed report with bated breath!
-- that Evertype "ripped off" Tenniel's illustrations. I'd be fascinated to know how one can steal illustrations that have been in the public domain for the last 24 years (Sir John Tenniel died in 1914; add 70 years for the copyright to expire, and you're up to 1984).

Bailey's allegations sound libellous to my lay ears; they're certainly ill-informed and prejudiced, which is no less than we've come to expect from him, I fear.

He really should gird up his cojones and come to Lost Wydhyel for the MAGA meeting, where he'd doubtless find other new publications to vent his spite on.

But, then, by his present performance, as he doesn't need to even read a book in order to condemn it, he doubtless doesn't even need to know its title or its author to condemn it either.

The Bailey school of lit crit!

:evil:

She
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Post by She » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:01 pm

some good points eddie but it's a book for children who cannot be advanced users as they haven't been learning long enough. therefore, for them to read it easily it should be in the form they are most used to, which will be SWF main. would you be willing to publish a SWF main version alongside the KS one?

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Marhak
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Post by Marhak » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:26 pm

I notice that you say "this is kind of jarring to the eye AT FIRST". But only at first. The utterly un-Cornish and very Germanic-looking 'Kammbronn' still jars and jolts unpleasantly 20-odd years after its initial appearance. I know which I prefer.



edited by: marhak, Jan 22, 2009 - 11:27 AM

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Marhak
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Post by Marhak » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:35 pm

She - KS and the SWF (Traditional)are extremely close. The diacritics (like 'em or loathe 'em) do make KS easier to read and speak.

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Post by Eddie-C » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:37 pm


gokyreloaded said:
I suggest a committee be set up to amend KS, specifically regarding the diacritics, as they seem to be a permanent part of KS.

There is one; it's called the Spellyans list.

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