“Skeul an Tavas” -- Corslyver rag Skeul an Yethow dyllys gans Agan Tavas ha gans Evertype

A new forum dedicated to Kernewek - the Cornish language, Cornish culture and the history of the Duchy of Cornwall
User avatar
Marhak
Posts: 11075
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:46 am

Post by Marhak » Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:59 pm

Nice admission that you are "Goky".  So, what was that about "intellectual capabilities", Reeves?


OK, now that he's made his slip:  Chris - is this guy banned or not?

User avatar
Marhak
Posts: 11075
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:46 am

Post by Marhak » Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:45 am

Yes, a mass debate.  Where are you going?  Alpha Centauri, perhaps?  Further?  I have a new class to run as well.  And books to finish writing.  Just examples of my 'intellectual laziness'.

User avatar
Marhak
Posts: 11075
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:46 am

Post by Marhak » Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:50 pm

Original as always.   Have you no new ideas of your own?   (What did we all do to deserve this cretin?).

Shiner
Posts: 2015
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:26 am

Post by Shiner » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:06 pm

One last thing before I leave, watch my blog for my new PDF file out by the year end. 'Secùnd lyver Redya', you will find it very informative, for children and adults alike.!


User avatar
Anselm
Posts: 1566
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:04 pm

Post by Anselm » Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:52 pm

Martesen, y fydh chons dhyn kafoes nebes kedhlow gwiw lemmyn!
Anselm

'Against a promontory my ship' Rump L. Stiltz-Kinn

'With regret I feel that unless you have a serious change of heart your presence at the Mennaye on Cornish Pirates match days is no longer desired.'
Rod Coward
CEO
Cornish Pirates

User avatar
Evertype
Posts: 3167
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:29 am
Contact:

Post by Evertype » Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:14 am

factotum said:
Horseman, please go and look at Evertype's site, list of books published. All of those in Cornish had previously been done in Irish and English. Once the design, layout and illustrations are sorted, "individually typeset" means tweaking the odd line or page-ending here and there, and if his software is up to scratch there'll be very little that isn't taken care of. Although hyphenation will of course be a potential problem with Cornish text.


What kind of bullshit is this, Keith?
It is true that I publish a number of Alices. The first was Eachtraí Eilíse i dTír na nIontas, first edition 2003, second edition 2007. This was followed by Alice's Adventures in Wonderland in English in 2008, Alys in Pow an Anethow in Cornish in 2009, and La Aventuroj de Alicio en Mirlando in Esperanto in 2009. (Perhaps our friend Palores will enjoy that one.) I'm planning an Italian and a French edition too, and perhaps one in Lojban. Are you going to whine about it when those come out, or cast aspersions on how "easy" it is to typeset nice books and publish them? Why don't you publish four different language versions of a book and then get back to us?
The Kensa Lyver Redya was prepared and typeset and published before The Primer was, should you care to know the facts of the matter.
I have only published Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Seas (in a modern translation by F. P Walter) in English. A splendid translation it is, too. If you think you read it as a child—you didn't, since so many of the early translations were incomplete and bowdlerizing. Verne's novel is a real page-turner, and not at all dated. I recommend it, unless you're a mean-spirited old begrudger.
I assure you the only prayer book I have published is Lyver Pejadow rag Kenyver Jorna: Cornish Daily Prayer. It's bilingual.
Kaspar Hocking's Adro dhe’n Bÿs in Peswar Ugans Dëdh is an abridgement of the original; it is quite different from the Irish Cuairt na Cruinne in Ochtó Lá. 
I hyphenate Cornish and Irish as well or better than most people can, I warrant. Because most people haven't. You, for instance, Keith me lad.
The three versions of Skeul an Tavas were all produced at the same time, and indeed launched on the same day, at Gorseth Kernow. You will kindly note that both I and Nicholas Williams assisted Ray in editing the work, in both SWF/M and SWF/T, as well as in KS, and that it was Agan Tavas, and not, for instance, the Kesva, who first published a teaching grammar in the SWF. In my own view the corrected orthography in the KS edition is superior, and a review of the section on pronunciation in the three volumes will show quite easily why (because the SWF has errors and inconsistencies in it).
I'm proud of these publications, as I am of the many publications which are in the pipeline. Your attempt to disparage this work, Keith, is little more than despicable. Your assertion, "If you go and take a look at Evertype's web site you'll discover that all the Cornish publication are just cloned from titles he'd already done in English and Irish" is simply false.

User avatar
factotum
Posts: 1320
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:15 pm

Post by factotum » Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:26 am






I apologise, I had mixed up the two Verne books. Apart from that, everything I've said is a lot closer to the truth than most of what comes from you and your mates. You personally couldn't and didn't translate anything. You have a 'book factory' that's your business, and running another two or three slim volumes through the 'machinery' is clearly no very big deal for you. Whereas anyone publishing in KK has to do the best they can, without professional editors and publishers to look after them, dot their i's and cross their t's. That's why the output is so unpredictable, some authors are good at these extra tasks while others aren't or just don't see the need.
As for SWF materials. I've already mentioned that KK people, including several Kesva members, did almost all of  the work to set up the Cornish version of the Language Ladder, had they not done so there would be no LL for Cornish. Their work was converted to SWF once this had been 'agreed'. What happened to it? Who owns the rights? Why has it not been published??
Lets face it someone is taking the piss.
---
On a different note, I'd be quite interested in Michael's approach to hyphernation of Cornish text. My starting point would probably be the rules set out for Welsh, Orgraff yr Iaith Gymraeg, (s) 9, 11-22. Are there any other relevant standards?




User avatar
Marhak
Posts: 11075
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:46 am

Post by Marhak » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:13 am

I don't quite understand where Keith is coming from here.  Agan Tavas is lucky enough to have, among its membership, a publisher who is an expert typesetter and just happens to specialise in international linguistics.  That's our good fortune.  Agan Tavas is also lucky enough to have Nigel Roberts, illustrator.  We're also lucky enough to have many members who can offer a whole range of talents.
Surely the Kowethas must have similarly talented people among its number?  If so, then where's the problem?
Or is the real gripe that, between them, Agan Tavas (you remember, Keith – the guys who don't publish anything) and Evertype are publishing a whole range of books, with a whole lot more to come.  If we think that the SWF (and KS) should be brought on, then it's our duty to do so.  Your guys can do the same if they really want to.  Just for once, there's a level playing field.  Some of us are running away across that field; others seem to be dragging their feet.  That's not our fault.  A means to create is available to us, and we're enjoying the opportunity – it's what we're best at.
And, Keith - some of our people are also involved with the Language Ladder - it's not an exclusive achievement.

User avatar
Evertype
Posts: 3167
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:29 am
Contact:

Post by Evertype » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:34 pm

factotum said:
I apologise, I had mixed up the two Verne books. Apart from that, everything I've said is a lot closer to the truth than most of what comes from you and your mates.
You apologize to me, and then you call me and my colleagues liars? My, my. I wonder what your mother would say about your manners, Keith.
You personally couldn't and didn't translate anything.
It isn't my function to act as a translator.
You have a 'book factory' that's your business, and running another two or three slim volumes through the 'machinery' is clearly no very big deal for you.
Are you suggesting that if I publish thick volumes you will be more charitable? Or are you just begrudging the fact that I publish beautiful books in good Cornish, because I reject the hypothetical phonology which underlies KK, and the orthography that goes along with it?
Whereas anyone publishing in KK has to do the best they can, without professional editors and publishers to look after them, dot their i's and cross their t's.
So... Are you accusing me of being a professional editor and publisher? Or are you accusing me of looking after my authors' books? Perhaps you are accusing them of choosing a competent publisher. Well, how dare you? Who are you, Keith Bailey, to try to run down a publisher who chooses to publish in Cornish?
That's why the output is so unpredictable, some authors are good at these extra tasks while others aren't or just don't see the need.
I really don't understand. Are you accusing the Cornish Language Board of failing to have the talent to produce good books, or are you accusing them of failing to have the will to do so? I'm fairly sure that those are the two things you've just said of them.
On a different note, I'd be quite interested in Michael's approach to hyphernation of Cornish text. My starting point would probably be the rules set out for Welsh, Orgraff yr Iaith Gymraeg, (s) 9, 11-22. Are there any other relevant standards?
I am obliged to confess that I do not believe that you are "quite interested" in my approach to hyphenation, since you have spent the rest of your posting calling me a liar and insulting me for publishing high-quality books in good Cornish.

User avatar
Marhak
Posts: 11075
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:46 am

Post by Marhak » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:59 pm

It's quite unbelievable that someone like Keith Bailey should attack a professional who publishes good quality books in good quality Cornish for the consumption of the wider public.  Mostly at his own expense, I should add.  After all, isn't that what we're supposed to be doing – making Cornish more widely available?
This is, of course, the same Keith Bailey whose production of Cornish publications has been . . . er . . . nil.  Whose contribution, overall, to the Cornish revival has been . . .er . . . nil.
(Hmm - used "has been" twice there.  Doesn't really apply to Keith.  Hardly "has-been".  "Never was" is more accurate).

truru
Posts: 628
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:55 am
Contact:

Post by truru » Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:07 pm

marhak said:
It's quite unbelievable that someone like Keith Bailey should attack a professional who publishes good quality books in good quality Cornish for the consumption of the wider public.


On the contrary, it's not unbelievable at all.

User avatar
Eddie-C
Posts: 1820
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:31 am

Post by Eddie-C » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:11 pm

truru said:

On the contrary, it's not unbelievable at all.

Unfortunately, truru, you're quite correct; it's only too believable. Moreover, Bailey said of Evertype,
"You personally couldn't and didn't translate anything."


By way of contrast, Bailey *could* translate into Cornish (well, KK anyway) yet hasn't translated anything at all since a few (quite nice) kids' small, elementary booklets in 1993 -- yep, 16 years ago. That's right; this self proclaimed 'fluent and effective speaker' has, over that period, contributed the grand total of (as our Transatlantic cousins might put it) 2 items ... one of them 'diddly' and the other 'squat'. In other words, not a damn fecking thing. Tra vyth! Malbew dam!


And this tosser has the cheek to call himself 'factotum' (Latin for 'he does everything')! Re'm fe, ny yllyr hedna passya hep gorryb, a gowetha! ... my a omsensaf temmyk a gragh-vardhonek ow tegensewa, own a'm bus ...

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests