Adding Cornish to Google Translate

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ThingsThatGoFlirInTheShla
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Adding Cornish to Google Translate

Post by ThingsThatGoFlirInTheShla » Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:14 pm

http://translate.google.com/toolkit/

Haven't got a clue what to do but this could turn the tables on our language!

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Anselm
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Re: Adding Cornish to Google Translate

Post by Anselm » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:33 pm

If it's anywhere near as hilarious as the Welsh version, the only rational response is to stuff your tie in your pocket and start drinking heavily.
Anselm

'Against a promontory my ship' Rump L. Stiltz-Kinn

'With regret I feel that unless you have a serious change of heart your presence at the Mennaye on Cornish Pirates match days is no longer desired.'
Rod Coward
CEO
Cornish Pirates

spelly
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Re: Adding Cornish to Google Translate

Post by spelly » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:17 pm

First you would have decide the orthography, then the style, ie Middle Cornish, Tudor,Tregear,Early Late, Middle late, Late Late, early 20th C revived, Mid 20th C revived. or early 21st C revived, or Long John Silver Cornish, could be quite an undertaking and would take the debate into the 22nd C.

ThingsThatGoFlirInTheShla
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Re: Adding Cornish to Google Translate

Post by ThingsThatGoFlirInTheShla » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:21 pm

So dismiss it, forget it and move on 'cause obviously it's much better to have nothing there at all than something resembling and representing Cornish.
This is a HUGE opportunity! I see the Welsh haven't bothered about disputes or orthographies. they have something resembling their language representing itself on the global stage where people can use it to start their interests in learning Welsh.
Jeez, get over this absolute bullshit of putting everything down and grow the fuçk up you wankers!

Now, can someone who cares about the language please make a comment on this great opportunity where we can all come together and create something truly exciting for our language.

ThingsThatGoFlirInTheShla
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Re: Adding Cornish to Google Translate

Post by ThingsThatGoFlirInTheShla » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:35 pm

Right here's another link. It appears that creatin each language is semi-automated, based upon similar texts being available in multiple laguages. Howeveer we can hepl by doing some inline translations using Google's tools on as many websites as possible. Either that or adding glossaries to the Google toolkit.

carrek
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Re: Adding Cornish to Google Translate

Post by carrek » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:14 pm

Ignore Anselm, Things (I can't see Spelly's post because he's on my ignore list - great feature!)

Gwra sconya ajon Anselm, Things (Na ellam gweles messach Spelly drefen ev dhe vos war ow rol sconya ajon - tremyn spladn!)

He's from the generation of "if it isn't in my preferred orthography and it's not in perfect Cornish then it's making a mockery of the language and is not worthy of my attention" (same as Wikipedia and pretty much everything anyone else ever does)

Ma ev ow tos dhort an kenedhel a "mar nag ew et an scrifa-composter ew an gwella oll genam, ma ow cul ges a'n tavas ha na dal ow attendyans" (pecar'a Wikipedia ha pub tra aral gwres gen nebonen aral)

This would be great for the language, we need things like this to make it an everyday language capable of describing all modern technologies and situations instead of the Celtic monastic language some would prefer it to remain.

Spladn rag an tavas a via hebma, ma res dhen taclow a'n par ma rag y wul tavas pubtedh abel dhe dhescrifa technologieth ha studhyow arnowyth oll en le an tavas menehek keltek neb a via gwell gen nebes tus.

I haven't got a clue how to start with that Google thing though, do you?

Nag ujy an tybyans lyha dhebm fatel dhe dhalleth gen an dra Google ma, ujy dhis?

spelly
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Re: Adding Cornish to Google Translate

Post by spelly » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:22 pm

Of course no- one is preventing either Carrek with his strange LC orthography and style or Thingsthatgofir, doing it themselves. Carrek as usual taks shite, especially about Anselm, but we allow such ignorance on this forum, it is called diversity, and nothing could be more diverse then the present Cornish Langauge.
So Thingsshia let us know your progress, and we can check it out.

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Anselm
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Re: Adding Cornish to Google Translate

Post by Anselm » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:06 pm

Many Welsh periodicals have a column of the hilarious howlers perpetrated by GoogleTranslate. Sometimes, the versions it perpetrates are not just hilarious, but occasionally dangerously inaccurate. The thing needs a great deal more work on it before it can be let loose on an unsuspecting public.
Anselm

'Against a promontory my ship' Rump L. Stiltz-Kinn

'With regret I feel that unless you have a serious change of heart your presence at the Mennaye on Cornish Pirates match days is no longer desired.'
Rod Coward
CEO
Cornish Pirates

ThingsThatGoFlirInTheShla
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Re: Adding Cornish to Google Translate

Post by ThingsThatGoFlirInTheShla » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:33 pm

Anselm wrote:Many Welsh periodicals have a column of the hilarious howlers perpetrated by GoogleTranslate. Sometimes, the versions it perpetrates are not just hilarious, but occasionally dangerously inaccurate. The thing needs a great deal more work on it before it can be let loose on an unsuspecting public.
They're talking about it. Bugger off unless you have something sensible to say!

ThingsThatGoFlirInTheShla
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Re: Adding Cornish to Google Translate

Post by ThingsThatGoFlirInTheShla » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:36 pm

carrek wrote:This would be great for the language, we need things like this to make it an everyday language capable of describing all modern technologies and situations instead of the Celtic monastic language some would prefer it to remain.

Spladn rag an tavas a via hebma, ma res dhen taclow a'n par ma rag y wul tavas pubtedh abel dhe dhescrifa technologieth ha studhyow arnowyth oll en le an tavas menehek keltek neb a via gwell gen nebes tus.

I haven't got a clue how to start with that Google thing though, do you?

Nag ujy an tybyans lyha dhebm fatel dhe dhalleth gen an dra Google ma, ujy dhis?

Im looking into it and I'll pass instructions on to everyone on this board. It'll probably b an application which allows you to send Google a translation of certain Google-chosen webpages, afterwhich Google's machines will work out the syntax and rules and create an 'alpha' version of the Cornish language. One which will be awfull or comical to read but nonetheless an alpha version under constant improvement. Basically the Google machines are learning the languages.

carrek
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Re: Adding Cornish to Google Translate

Post by carrek » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:41 pm

Anselm wrote:Many Welsh periodicals have a column of the hilarious howlers perpetrated by GoogleTranslate. Sometimes, the versions it perpetrates are not just hilarious, but occasionally dangerously inaccurate. The thing needs a great deal more work on it before it can be let loose on an unsuspecting public.
Every language has that, from Chinglish to Franglais. Everyone knows machine translations are crap.

I would rather have a funny Google translation that puts our language on the same level as Welsh and Catalan than wait for them to get it right before we get up off our asses and do something.

This self-esteem issue with the language among certain people is a hindrance to development.

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Anselm
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Re: Adding Cornish to Google Translate

Post by Anselm » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:46 pm

It'll take a very, very large corpus indeed to make it work properly. Welsh is in a much stronger position than Cornish - one of the sources for GoogleTranslate is the record of debates in the National Assembly - but at the moment Welsh-speakers regard GoogleTranslate as more of a hindrance than anything else. With a bit of luck, we can learn from their experiences.
Anselm

'Against a promontory my ship' Rump L. Stiltz-Kinn

'With regret I feel that unless you have a serious change of heart your presence at the Mennaye on Cornish Pirates match days is no longer desired.'
Rod Coward
CEO
Cornish Pirates

carrek
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Re: Adding Cornish to Google Translate

Post by carrek » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:02 am

Anselm wrote:It'll take a very, very large corpus indeed to make it work properly. Welsh is in a much stronger position than Cornish - one of the sources for GoogleTranslate is the record of debates in the National Assembly
But that's no reason for us not to start, is it?
Anselm wrote:but at the moment Welsh-speakers regard GoogleTranslate as more of a hindrance than anything else.
That's quite the generalisation. I'll bet many are glad to see Google offering Welsh language services and would rather have it there than not at all.

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Anselm
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Re: Adding Cornish to Google Translate

Post by Anselm » Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:33 am

It's also true. What people want is proper Welsh versions of documents, not machine-produced 'Sgymraeg' as it's known. In fact, many people are concerned that GoogleTranslate may be seen as a quick fix when what is needed is accurate texts in normal Welsh.
Machine translations can be useful for giving an idea of the gist of a text for somebody with no knowledge at all of the target language. Then they can decide whether or not they want a proper version done by a professional translator. On present showing, the system has nothing like the capability for producing satisfactory translations. We'd need to approach it with the greatest of caution.
Anselm

'Against a promontory my ship' Rump L. Stiltz-Kinn

'With regret I feel that unless you have a serious change of heart your presence at the Mennaye on Cornish Pirates match days is no longer desired.'
Rod Coward
CEO
Cornish Pirates

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Marhak
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Re: Adding Cornish to Google Translate

Post by Marhak » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:34 pm

Irrespective of spelling, the problem of the translation programmes I've seen so far is that they can't cope with the difference in structure and word order. Mutation is another problem. So, if you translate from English into Cornish, you get Cornish words but English word order. If that problem can be overcome, I suppose one could do worse than to use SWF orthpgraphy, which can easily be altered to the orthography of your own choice if you so wish.

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